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Hi again,Toni!
You have a bronze coin of Austria, 4 kreutzer 1861B.
Sorry but this other coin of yours is also of a low collectable value because it is very used in circulation (at least one of its 2 sides).
As it is,it may be evaluated at 1 $. Condition (quality) is less than F(ine),I say a VG grade. Andi
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Thanks, I guess I'll keep it then. :]
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Toni T Ok.,my friend,you are very free to do as you wish! I hope I'll be able to help you with much more valuable findings... Good luck!
P.S.: Coin collecting is VERY addictive, you'll see!
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I cleaned my celling and I stumbled on some coins that my grandfather and father collected over the years so Im trying to check some of more interesting/older ones. I did some reaserch and from what I can tell is that certain years and minting error are valueable. I can see collecting is addictive. I already plan to buy some coins for my rising collection of 25 croatian "kunas" special edition coins. I also saw that I can buy like 1 kilo of old coins. What do you thing about that, is it worth it?
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Also what do these numbers under coin codition rating mean?(F12 for example). What if I cleaned the coin with vinegar and baking soda without scratching it, would it help to get higher rating?
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Toni T Toni,here is my reply to your last 2 msgs.:
1) * ''I also saw that I can buy like 1 kilo of old coins. What do you thing about that, is it worth it?''
Sorry,Toni,but I haven't understood what you ment!?!
* Where have you seen that you can buy ''like'' 1 kilo of old coins? And *what kilo of old coins are you talking about?! *What do you mean by ''is it worth it?''...
Please,be more specific(clear) and come back to me with details... For a proper response!
2)
The quality(condition of preservation) in which a coin(or token) arrives to us(in our days) is given by so-called ''grades'' of a coin. The process to atribute a grade is called ''grading''. A coin in a condition ''as if'' it just left the mint(so,completely uncirculated,perfect!) is said to be in MS(= mint state). If the coin is released into circulation, wear begins to appear. Wear + circulation defects (like scratches, rim/edge bumps...). More wear is present & accentuated,more the grading goes down! In an euphemistic way of speaking,a round piece of metal on which we can see about nothing (except that it used to be, sometimes in the past,a coin) is called to be in an AG(almost good) grade. So,from low to high grades we have:
AG ; G(ood) ; V(ery)G(ood) ; F(ine) ; V(ery)F(ine) ; X(Extra)F(ine) ; A(lmost)U(ncirculated) ; MS(=Uncirculated).
The figures after these grades are complementary indicators of HOW MUCH of the original details of a coin is still present. So,we have:
AG1-2 ; G4-6 ; VG8-10 ; F12-15 ; VF20-35 ; XF40-50 ; AU52-58 ; MS60-66 ; (PROOF67-70,special frosty/mirror like surfaces).
3)
THE GENERAL RULE IS NOT TO CLEAN COINS! LOST DETAILS BECAUSE OF WEAR WILL NEVER COME BACK BY CLEANING!
In special cases,when coins are found in soil(ground) and/or have heavy dirt stuck on them (by time & improper storage), you may try a soft cleaning with soap,bicarbonate of soda & hot water(even boiling water). Then,dip the coin into clear water and dry it with a soft tissue. I personally never tried vinegar, it is an acid (even if quite soft) and I don't know what it may cause to the coin's surfaces...
Hope I responded to your questions. Please come back with the ''problem #1'' and feel free to ask me whatever you need. It will be a pleasure for me to assist you further!
Andi
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1. Question:
Something similar to this:
2. Question:
Thanks for detailed explanation, appreciate it. What is the number beneath representing (for example number 2,00 beneath F12, is that how much coin is worth?).
3. Tnx. Maybe I'll try to clean it tomorow and I can send you some photos. I fell like more details would be visible with a little bit of cleaning (maybe :/)
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Toni Dear Toni,
1) I saw the bunch of eBay coins ''at kilo''... Total price (including shipping) is about 35 $. My personal opinion is that those coins are of very low value & they do NOT worth that price!.
2) Correct,all the numbers beneath the grades are catalogue values (KM,Krause-Mishler-Clifford), expressed in usd.
3) All coins you have are your property... so,you may do with them whatever you like...
My opinion is that a coin in the condition of your 4 kreutzer 1861,even cleaned and with some better ''looking'', will not exceed a 2$ price. 
So,the work of cleaning doesn't worth the coin's value/price
Andi
Toni,this is the very bad side(face) of your coin... NOTHING TO DO ABOUT IT! What's gone,is gone forever!
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Toni -- Andi is full of knowledge. I think you are figuring that out right now. Haha!
My picture shows a nice 4 kreutzer, 1861 B, that sold to a collector for $62 US dollars during a 2019 auction. The one in my picture had a lot more detail compared to yours. It looks like your coin has an average amount of wear from circulation. The wear on your coin would probably send the price down to about $20 or $25.
The $20 to $25 price is my guess at what a collector would pay for your coin. That's called the "ask" price. A coin dealer pays less than ask because the coin dealer has to make a profit when selling to collectors. A dealer pays "bid" price. In your case, I'd guess $10 bid.
Andi's quotes "catalog" price, as do most published price guides. Very roughly, ask is about 3/4 catalog and bid is about 1/2 catalog.
You can see our page on these coins at this link:
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Tnx for the reply.
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I cleaned it a little bit, does it make it better?
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Toni Hi again,Toni! Thanks for coming back to me! My friend,your cleaning has revealed a bit better,more clearly the already EXISTING details. But...I am so sorry,your coin just cannot be graded higher than a F(ine)12 specimen.
No way to reach a VF20 grade!
I have no interest to tell you nice or bad ''stories''! I am not here for such a thing! I want to be as realistic as I can be!!! I don't want to create you FALSE EXPECTATIONS. It would have been very easy & simple for me to tell you: ''Look,Toni,your coin is in an XF condition(grade)!'' It would have worth me NOTHING... But,dear Toni,I don't think that you need,have wished & came here for such a ''treatment''...
P.S.: The KM ''Standard World Coins'' is a famous,reputable & worldwide known catalogue. Although,in a few cases it may give some evaluation errors or missing years/mint marks for coins (''ERARE HUMANUM EST!'',as a latin would have said), generally the values it gives are realistic and BASED ON MARKET REALISED TRANSACTIONS.
* Please also note that their given value for an XF40 specimen of the coin 4 kr. 1861B (= 60$) is so close to the auction's ''hammer price'' of 62 usd. (example given by our dear colleague & ''mentor'' Paul). And,yes,that sold in auction specimen may be graded as XF40 or 45 (I totally agree with this grade here!). Anyhow,you must know that if a collector wants BADLY a coin,he may pay higher(or even unexpected high!) prices than the catalogue values. It happens sometimes,from time to time,also with categories of coins: for ex.,in our days, GENUINE old chinese & russian coins ; of course U.S. coins too. But... sorry again,THIS coin of yours (with an original minting of 18 millions) is NOT among those sought after coins by collectors.
***In conclusion,I have nothing more to add besides that I wish you the most good luck for great prices (if you decide to sell this coin or any other coin you may want to sell.)
Andi
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Thanks.
I was just curious to know how grading works (Im new to coin collecting) and you explained it well. Thanks for all informations and hopefully Ill stumble upon some more valueable ones in the future.
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Toni Please,my friend,feel free to contact me WHENEVER & WITH WHATEVER you may need as help and information!
Friendly yours, Andi
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